Your views on Iraq...

I'd like to learn what other folks are thinking about US intervention in Iraq. I won't disclose my views yet. I don't want to bias any responders. Thank You.

I think all the forces should come home and leave them to it.

I think that would be too simplistic. I believe that the primary reason we care at all about the middle east is oil. For better or worse oil is vital to the U.S. economy. But the U.S. economy has benefited the entire world for the past 200+ years. For instance in transportation (airplanes and automobiles), medicine (polio vaccines, insulin, penicillin, warfarin, Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (for depressin), energy (nuclear, solar, advanced battery technology). A collapsed U.S. economy would throw the entire global economy into a depression just as occurred during the end of the 20's and early 30's. Prior to this other economic depressions occurred that were either lessened or worsened depending on how the U.S. economy fared. I believe the world should understand and acknowledge this before blindly calling Americans crusaders. It was the United States that kept England and the Soviet Union afloat during the Nazi advances in 1940 and 1941. It was the United States that literally rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. The United States has come out and stated that it supports the rights of Palestinians to a homeland. Isn't this something that that jackass Bin laden also calls for.

Pulling out and letting the Iraqis commit genocide on each other would not help the U.S.'s interests in the long run. Frankly, three years ago I saw a larger plan unfolding. With Afganistan to the east and Iraq to the west, Iran is now sandwiched between two fledgling democracies supported by the U.S. My guess is that within two years of stabilization in Iraq, it will be Irans's turn. To be honest, I remember the hostage crisis of 1979-1980. And I recall the debacle that the rescue effort desert one was. I have no love lost for the poliuticians in Irans nor there Mullahs. Enough for now....

We deleted this thread by mistake. Sorry Clegg

Clegg Wrote....

That's an interesting perspective. my thoughts on the matter are as follows. Sorry it's a long one!

It’s true that the Allied forces wouldn’t have defeated Nazi Germany without the help of the US, but the US benefited greatly from it. They made a fortune from selling arms such as the liberty ships to the UK. They gained the jet engine from the British. The gained some of the best scientific minds from Germany which led to them creating the atomic bomb. They gained some of the best rocketry scientists leading them to take a lead in the space race. They gained one of the best helicopter designers, Igor Sigoroski leading them to develop some of the world’s best helicopters. So from a commercial perspective the US did very well out of the war.

Following that – it was a fear of communism that led the world to the edge of WW3 and the Cuban crisis. Fear of communism that drove the space race. Fear of communism that led the arms race during the cold war. Fear of communism that led to the US getting involved in places like Korea.

Then let’s not forget that it was a fear of the Islamic rogue states that controlled all the oil that drove the US to put Saddam Hussain in power in the first place. The US hoped Sadam could control Iran et al and therefore the middle eastern oil reserves. It was the US trying to control life in the middle east that led to Osama and his mates getting really annoyed and planning 9/11.

Subsequent American governments have either benefited from wars or contributed heavily to their effort. Far from the nation that keeps everyone safe – the US is the nation that actually is putting everyone in harm. Another point is that of finance. The US has made billions of dollars from exports including arms. Far from being a contributor to the global economy they are a strong retractor of funds. I think that’s why you see a very week dollar when compared to other currency.

Back to your point in question – I think the US has to keep a presence in both Iraq and Afghanistan now. They started the fight and created the problems. It’s up to them to now solve those problems, no matter how long it takes. I think the British forces should be brought home immediately. It’s not our fight and it never was. It could be argued that 9/11 was the trigger that started the “war on terror” but if the US had kept their noses out of business that wasn’t theirs, I.E. the middle east, then non of this would have ever happened. It’s not a war on terrorists – it’s a war on people who fight back against a global bully with the only weapons they have.

The worst thing is the American propaganda machine actually tells the American people that they are doing the world a favour and are loved world over for it. The truth couldn’t be further way from this. The American nation is becoming globally despised for its actions.

Karl – I expect that you may remove my thread as it doesn’t follow nice politically correct lines – but I hope you will view my comments as part of the discussion and leave them here.

Very well written. I will have to take some time to see if I can pick apart your arguments. I must say that in the mean time I am still a proud American and will not apologize for my love of country, however many mistakes we've made in the past. Again, great post. i'll try to it justice.

Please don't misunderstand me - I don't think the American people are at fault. You can afterall only go on what your governments tell you.

The American nation has done some pretty remarkable things too - NASA and NOAA are amazing organisations. You should be proud of that fact alone.